Replies: 31

Max Breizh Posts: 90 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 17, 2008 9:14 AM I strongly agree - Some knowledge in financial management such as accounting management is critical to understand financial implications of inventory, containment, rework, auditing, continuous improvement, supplier relationship and quality costs. I am a quality professional with MBA, and I would be glad to participate in this new discussion board!

Klaus Geyer Posts: 201 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 17, 2008 1:25 PM > I strongly agree - > > Some knowledge in financial management such as > accounting management is critical to understand > financial implications of inventory, containment, > rework, auditing, continuous improvement, supplier > relationship and quality costs. > > I am a quality professional with MBA, and I would be > glad to participate in this new discussion board! Dear Max, That sounds really fine to me. Do you know the procedure how to set up a new discussion board? I haven't had an opportunity to look after the steps necessary to found a new board. - In any case I am glad that you are willing to participate in this new discussion part and that you already have a perfect background. Regards, Klaus

Max Breizh Posts: 90 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 17, 2008 1:30 PM We need to submit the idea to one of the "Gang of four". One of them may read this post and help us drive the process. From what I have read so far though, there seems to be complaints that there already are too many discussion boards....

Klaus Geyer Posts: 201 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 18, 2008 2:56 AM > We need to submit the idea to one of the "Gang of > four". > One of them may read this post and help us drive the > process. > > From what I have read so far though, there seems to > be complaints that there already are too many > discussion boards.... Of course, there are many discussion boards already. Quality in general is a very complex and sophisticated issue so that each of them might has its meaning. But does one of these discussion boards deal with financial management? - I think most of us have a certain knowledge of Cost of Quality. But that might not be enough. I am afraid. I would think that sound financial management usually dominates the mind of senior executives. I recently have read that it is not the quality or customer satisfaction, it is just that financial performance which is center stage with the senior management team. - Therefore I feel that a Quality Manager needs more than a very basic knowledge of financial management. A good point to start with could be areas such as budgeting, financial ratios, financial statements or product/service cost structures. Of course, one could ask his/her question to the "Management Board". However, I would prefer a more systematic approach because financial management is a huge field with its own "technical" language. What do you think, Max? Regards, Klaus

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: Financial Management   [ 3 pts ] Posted: Jul 18, 2008 7:24 AM Since the volunteer Board Improvement Group is becoming part of this discussion, let me make a few comments. 1. The regular board participants are not against adding new forums. 2. A recommendation has been made to create a process for adding new forums including a requirement that all forums have moderators and that the forums be reviewed after an agreed time limit for usage. That does mean that the moderator has an obligation to promote its use, monitor its content, see that responses are given and appropriate etc. if the forum is to survive. 3. A review board was recommended that included forum moderators that would not only approve new forum requests but also review the usage of current forums to remove minimally used forums or consolidate forums that overlap. Considering the inaction on these recommendations, it is difficult for some of us to support the addition of another forum no matter what the perceived value is. Bill Pflanz

Klaus Geyer Posts: 201 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 18, 2008 7:49 AM Hi Bill, Your comment brings me down to earth again. So it would be better to post questions regarding to financial management in already existing boards such as "Quality Management" or "Ask a Quality Professional", wouldn't it? - However, I still have hopes of finding someone who could be able to and might be willing to take the part of the moderator. It should be a quality professional who knows how to moderate a forum and who has an excellent knowledge of financial management. In any case, I don't think that this forum would be ignored or rarely visited. Almost each certification deals with any kind of "costs" so it might be a good source for those of us who are preparing for an exam. Furthermore, I see many opportunities to apply suggestions or explanations from this forum in our day-today tasks. Klaus

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 18, 2008 8:52 AM Klaus, Since we know each other, you understand that I could be a potential moderator for a financial management forum. Unfortunately, I cannot support the creation of another forum when ASQ has chosen not to create a review board to approve new forums and remove inactive or minimally used forums. On the topic of asking questions in other forums, I have not seen much participation in responding to the questions in the financial management area in the past. My perception is that there are many quality professionals who struggle in this area and very few who have sufficient knowledge to assist. Duke Okes is interested in the area of financial management and may have some comments on the subject. Bill Pflanz

Duke Okes Posts: 546 Re: Financial Management   [ 2 pts ] Posted: Jul 18, 2008 9:43 AM Thanks, Bill. Yes, I have the same belief that many quality professionals do not have sufficient knowledge of financial management, and that this affects their careers. I'm therefore developing a course just for that purpose. However, for a discussion board on the subject I would recommend that if you're interested in starting one, either call ASQ or email cs@asq.org and ask how one goes about doing it. Ask what process they have in place, and how you can assist. I wouldn't let the current number of boards impact the decision. I believe much of the discussion around number has to do with the amount of overlap (e.g., Six Sigma, Statistics, Statistical Practice in Industry as one example). Also, there are several boards that have probably outlived their usefulness and should be dropped. It's my view that if a particular ASQ Division or a member (again, depending on ASQ policies & procedurres) agrees to moderate a board, it should exist, and if someone doesn't, it shouldn't. And, if it hasn't had a certain number of postings within a specific period of time, and/or has not had a posting for a particular length of time, it should probably be eliminated.

Wes Bucey, Quality Manager Posts: 1,336 Re: Financial Management   [ 3 pts ] Posted: Jul 18, 2008 3:06 PM FWIW: I have both knowledge and experience about financial management issues. I normally look at ALL post titles new since my previous visit. If the Original Poster (OP) has given a thread a straightforward title which describes the essence of the query, I will definitely look at it to see if I can offer a helpful answer (which does not duplicate one already in the thread - I try not to give redundant answers because I am certainly annoyed when I see four or five responses with the same info [sometimes word-for-word, not even paraphrased.]) I simply do not bother to even read any thread which has some brain dead title like "Help!!!" My experience as a Forum Moderator in another Quality-oriented Forum leads me to believe that the regular, helpful members of ANY forum are similar in their approach: specific forum is not as important a consideration as a thoughtful title (and well-stated question with sufficient detail for someone to supply an answer immediately without waiting for any answer to a definition of some arcane, company-specific acronym used by the OP in the query) which will evoke a desire to respond in folks who have pertinent information to contribute. Bottom line: post a question in an active Forum; folks with worthwhile answers will find it if it is packaged to attract. -Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Max Breizh Posts: 90 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 18, 2008 9:43 PM I certainly enjoyed all the feedback since Klaus first suggested the new forum. It is good to see that many people surf on all forums and bring in good feedback (so I am not the only one clicking on all the links it looks to me that there are pros and cons to both approaches of using existing forums or creating a new one. Wes, yes you are correct that if the question is well phrased it could be posted in the Quality Management forum and surely get a lot of good responses. At the same time it would have to be specific to make sure the posts do not go in every directions, challenging when we know how vast the area of Financial management is... Back to basis, have anyone done a measure of how many financial questions have been asked in various forums? We all seem to think that there is a demand for it, but is it confirmed? I am a little worried also but this comment from Bill: "3. A review board was recommended that included forum moderators that would (...) also review the usage of current forums to remove minimally used forums or consolidate forums that overlap. Considering the inaction on these recommendations, it is difficult for some of us to support the addition of another forum no matter what the perceived value is. ". Am I understanding that there is no way back if we decide that a new forum was not a good idea? I would prefer to operate under LIFO (understand "Least Interest, First Out", my latest invention!)- Either way, I am of the opinion of the "Gang of four" (still waiting for their feedback...)- To be continued...

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 19, 2008 7:12 AM > > Either way, I am of the opinion of the "Gang of four" > (still waiting for their feedback...)- > > To be continued... Max, You have heard from half of the gang of four (Wes and myself). We originally started as an informal group to improve the board because of continuing problems with it. I stumbled across the Discussion Board as opposed to ASQ promoting it and that led me to some regulars who liked the concept but knew it was lacking in performance. The gang of four evolved into a larger group of regulars who started working with ASQ staff on recommmendations. The reality is that the turnover of the staff at ASQ and the lack of support from ASQ management resulted in most of the recommendations never being implemented. Wes has described the efforts of one individual creating an interactive discussion board that is robust and capable. Personally, I have always felt that ASQ has lost a valuable opportunity to be a leader in using the Internet for promoting quality. Unless things change, the board will always be a "me too" at best with the potential to eventually have a slow death. Bill Pflanz

Akio Miura Posts: 1,593 Re: Financial Management   [ 2 pts ] Posted: Jul 19, 2008 9:09 AM Klaus: I agree with Max B that it could be posted in the Quality Management forum and you surely get a lot of good responses. Also, if you post a question in any other active Forum, folks with worthwhile answers will find it and respond as Wes Bucey wrote. I am sure Wes Bucey is one of such professionals who have both knowledge and experience about financial management issues. I know it because I have read all of his postings exceeding 1,200 in the past 5 years. There are many other good friends having both knowledge and experience in such issues and being ready to reply to your questions. Akio Miura

Klaus Geyer Posts: 201 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 20, 2008 1:09 PM Dear Mr. Bucey, To avoid any kind of misunderstandings: I didn't want to know whether we need a separate discussion board that deals with Quality Management because I was unsatisfied with the already existing discussion boards. I have been here just for a few years and I have always received the help I asked for. Sometimes even more than I had expected. - I know that you are a very experienced Quality Manager (and an excellent writer, by the way) and that you often bring financial aspects up. - I also know the other quality-oriented forum that you mentioned. However, I haven't visited it at regular intervals so far. - I also agree with you, that a meaningful title is very important to attract attention. As for me, I know that I sometimes could have asked more clearly or should have added some important details to make my question easier to understand. Despite these problems, I always have being helped - sometimes within a few hours after posting my question. Therefore, once again: My proposal shouldn't imply any criticism of existing boards or their participants. Regards, Klaus Geyer

Wes Bucey, Quality Manager Posts: 1,336 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 20, 2008 1:59 PM > Dear Mr. Bucey, > > To avoid any kind of misunderstandings: I didn't want > to know whether we need a separate discussion board > that deals with Quality Management because I was > unsatisfied with the already existing discussion > boards. I have been here just for a few years and I > have always received the help I asked for. Sometimes > even more than I had expected. - I know that you are > a very experienced Quality Manager (and an excellent > writer, by the way) and that you often bring > financial aspects up. - I also know the other > quality-oriented forum that you mentioned. However, I > haven't visited it at regular intervals so far. - I > also agree with you, that a meaningful title is very > important to attract attention. As for me, I know > that I sometimes could have asked more clearly or > should have added some important details to make my > question easier to understand. Despite these > problems, I always have being helped - sometimes > within a few hours after posting my question. > Therefore, once again: My proposal shouldn't imply > any criticism of existing boards or their > participants. > > Regards, > Klaus Geyer @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I didn't mean to imply I was offended. The plain truths are these: 1) The ASQ Forum software is outdated and crippled. We could speculate on the reasons (and I have on numerous occasions), but it is primarily the situation outlined in Deming's Red Beads - management refuses to make ANY effort to "continually" improve and refuses to accept any suggestions because of a "not made here" mentality. 2) There are many experienced and knowledgeable folks who have visited these forums, but are so frustrated by the crippled software, they find it easier to avoid visiting than to work toward getting it fixed. 3) Some posters are their own worst enemies and seem to go out of their way to alienate folks trying to offer helpful suggestions. These "alienees" may be the ones asking an original question or just jerks hopping in to derail a thread. EVERY forum gets such folks, but the best forums have a team of moderators who have the power and tools to shut the jerks down. Sadly, ASQ has not seen fit to give existing moderators enough tools and does not actively recruit new moderators to give better 24/7 coverage. Empowerment is the key to any successful business with employees, conspicuous by its absence throughout ASQ, not just with the ASQ staff and volunteer moderators charged with working on the Forums 4) A good forum needs a GREAT search function which is available at the click of a button on EVERY page. If the function works well and is easily accessible AND is continually promoted throughout the site, many of the duplicate and redundant posts from newbies and just plain lazy people would be reduced to a manageable number. Reducing this "noise" and clutter makes for a more pleasant experience for newbies and regulars alike. 5) Time is the most precious commodity for those experienced and knowledgeable folks who provide the best answers in a forum site like ASQ or the Cove. Simply, the reason I'm closing on 6,000 posts in the Cove while I have only 25% of that number here in ASQ's Forum (even though I've been HERE three years longer than at the Cove - my first few years of posts at ASQ were wiped out with the last software change) is because I can read, find, and post ten items in the Cove for every one in the ASQ because of the software efficiency. It seems, therefore, the quality of the software in a forum is of paramount importance to a successful (by any measure one chooses) forum. 6) In any internet forum, users continually vote on the quality of their experience with the click of a mouse or a keyboard. Here at ASQ, the regulars who keep coming back day after day are coming more from a sense of noblesse oblige to other ASQ members, especially newbies, than for the pleasure of the experience. Even the most dedicated sometimes say, "Enough is enough!" and cease visiting. Even the most masochistic of us get tired of banging our heads against brick walls. -Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Max Breizh Posts: 90 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 21, 2008 9:50 AM Wes, Thanks for sharing your experience with ASQ Discussion Board Committee. The points made are quite strong and agreeable, particularly the part about empowerment to the moderators - FYI - I wanted to share with you emails that have been going on the side. Of course after reading what I have here in this forum, I decline the moderator function until proper tools are in place to do the job correctly - Maybe more to follow...? " --------------------------------------------------- From: Tiffany Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:33 PM To: Max Subject: RE: financial management discussion board for quality managers That’s terrific. Thanks, Max. Jeanine Becker will be contacting you and Klaus to discuss opportunities and to see if this topic is a good fit for a network or just a discussion board. If only a discussion board, I can work with both of you to set this up using our internal process. As you have noticed, there is a small group of moderators and users who would prefer we limit the growth of the discussion board community. However, we like to provide opportunities for growth as the need or interest arises. We can set up a board and monitor interest and participation. If after, say, a year, the board is unsuccessful, then we can consider shutting it down. That sound good? I will be in touch with you once Jeanine has made contact. Thanks again! Kind Regards, Tiffany Membership Program Administrator American Society for Quality PO Box 3005 Milwaukee, WI 53201 http://www.asq.org To help us continuously improve service performance, we invite you to complete a brief (10 question) survey. Thank you for your time and input. Click here to complete. ----------------------------------------------------- From: Max Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:00 PM To: Tiffany Subject: RE: financial management discussion board for quality managers Sure - I'm okay to be a moderator. Max ----------------------------------------------------- From: Tiffany Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:38 PM To: Subject: financial management discussion board for quality managers Klaus and Max, I have been following your posts regarding setting up a financial management discussion board for quality managers. I can help you facilitate this. There may be some additional opportunities here as well to set up a network. I need to talk to our “network” expert, but before I do I would like to get more of a feel for your level of participation. Are either (both of you) willing to moderate the board? Are you willing to involve yourselves if we are able to explore a potential financial management network of which a discussion board would be a small piece of? Kind Regards, Tiffany ------------

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 21, 2008 4:33 PM Tiffany and I have worked together on improving the board but I would like to clarify something. The statement: As you have noticed, there is a small group of moderators and users who would prefer we limit the growth of the discussion board community. However, we like to provide opportunities for growth as the need or interest arises. We can set up a board and monitor interest and participation. If after, say, a year, the board is unsuccessful, then we can consider shutting it down. is exactly in agreement with what the moderators want. We have no problem with new forums being added as long as they have moderators and are reviewed for usage. Since this looks like the direction that ASQ wants to go, there are a number of forums that do not have moderators and have minimal usage that seem to meet the definition of unsuccessful. This may be a good time to add the new forum if a moderator is found and ASQ can eliminate the unsuccessful forums that already exist. Bill Pflanz Audit Forum Moderator

Akio Miura Posts: 1,593 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 21, 2008 8:20 PM I agree with Bill to eliminate a number of the unsuccessful forums, but I do not think it is necessary to add a new forum for financial issues. There were almost no questions raised about financial issues in the past. It is not because there are no good responders but all members had no such questions. It is not from indifference, but most members are knowledgeable in financial and accounting basics. In most Divisions, there are many MBAs and people who are knowledgeable in accounting and financial issues. If Klaus has any specific question regarding financial issues, he should post in the Forum of the QMD first. If you cannot get reply there, you visit any other Division related to your company product. Akio Miura, Moderator of Standards Forum and FD&C Forum

Klaus Geyer Posts: 201 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 23, 2008 6:44 AM I would like to thank you all participants who shared their opinions on a potential new discussing board that deals with „Financial Management“. The discussion itself sometimes seemed to be a little controversial (for example: Mr. Okes wrote: „Yes, I have the same belief that many quality professionals do not have sufficient knowledge of financial management, and that this affects their careers...“. Mr. Miura wrote: „….There were almost no questions raised about financial issues in the past. It is not because there are no good responders but all members had no such questions. It is not from indifference, but most members are knowledgeable in financial and accounting basics:..“.) but in the end I think it was a valuable discussion where everyone could explain their opinions. I summarize, that all of us agree that a Quality Professional needs more than a basic knowledge in Financial Management. I am glad that some of the professionals who have an excellent knowledge both in Quality Management and in Financial Management are willing to answer questions about Financial Management in already existing discussion forums. Once again, thanks for taking part in our lively discussion. Kind regards, Klaus

Akio Miura Posts: 1,593 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 23, 2008 10:09 AM Klaus: Just one thing. > . . . > The discussion itself sometimes seemed to be a little > controversial (for example: Mr. Okes wrote: „Yes, I > have the same belief that many quality professionals > do not have sufficient knowledge of financial > management, and that this affects their careers...“. > Mr. Miura wrote: „….There were almost no questions > raised about financial issues in the past. It is > not because there are no good responders but all > members had no such questions. It is not from > indifference, but most members are knowledgeable in > financial and accounting basics:..“.) but in the end > I think it was a valuable discussion where everyone > could explain their opinions. . . . Duke Okes is not wrong. As he wrote, many quality professionals do not have sufficient knowledge of financial management, ...“. It is true, but it does not mean that all quality professionals do not have sufficient knowledge of financial managemet. My statement is based on the fact. I reviewed all substantial postings of these boards in the past 4 or 5 years as other top contributors of these boards. There are many MBAs as well as CQManagers (CMQ/OEs in current term) among active ASQ members. I am sure such people will help you when you have any specific question. > . . . a Quality Professional needs more > than a basic knowledge in Financial Management. I am > glad that some of the professionals who have an > excellent knowledge both in Quality Management and in > Financial Management are willing to answer questions > about Financial Management in already existing > discussion forums. . . . > I hope so. Many friends of us here in these boards (not necessarily including me) have more than a basic knowledge in Financial Management. Akio Miura

Steven Prevette Posts: 1,506 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 23, 2008 11:26 AM I'm in favor of a Financial Management area on the boards. One of the lessons of Six Sigma is that it certainly helps to be able to talk "the bottom line" with management. I do remain concerned with the lack of concern on the part of the "powers that be" who run these discussion boards on issues that have been brought up in this discussion. ASQ has repeatedly sought input and advice over the years from its members, but definitely ignores that input when it comes to the Discussion Boards. Steve Prevette Moderator Ask a QA Professional Moderator Students in Quality Moderator Member-Leader Forum

Wesley Richardson Posts: 1,258 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 23, 2008 11:43 AM Hi Klaus, Instead of waiting for a Financial Management area to be created, why not posting your discussion topics on Financial Management in either Quality Roundtable or in Quality Management, but not both, areas? I am curious to see the type of topics and questions that would be posted. Using the above suggestion would provide a preliminary indication of the level of interest and participation in Financial Management discussions. Wes R.

Max Breizh Posts: 90 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 23, 2008 2:34 PM Exactly what I have been asking for. Where are these questions? I did a quick sweep on the various forums but I did not find any financial related question but one or two remotely related. Yes it is essential to quality costs and related COPQ. I guess I will ask the first question then... See my post in "Quality Management"...

Klaus Geyer Posts: 201 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 2:42 AM > Hi Klaus, > > Instead of waiting for a Financial Management area to > be created, why not posting your discussion topics on > Financial Management in either Quality Roundtable or > in Quality Management, but not both, areas? > > I am curious to see the type of topics and questions > that would be posted. > > Using the above suggestion would provide a > preliminary indication of the level of interest and > participation in Financial Management discussions. > > Wes R. Hi Wes, I more than ever believe that there is an increasing demand for a good opportunity to discuss issues regarding Financial Management. That we haven’t had many questions concerning Financial Management doesn’t mean that there is no demand at all. It simply shows, that very few people have asked there questions here. Perhaps they have found another source where the can get the knowledge necessary to do their jobs better and to involve top management in their quality initiatives. – I am under the necessity of improving my knowledge regarding Financial Management and I also want to improve my knowledge. I feel that my very basic knowledge regarding Financial Management could be a barrier to do my job in the future as well as until now. Therefore I intend to take a correspondence courses in Financial Management. I think this way a lot of my questions will be answered. Of course, if there were issues I needed some help I would post them into either an already discussion board or in a new board. Kind regards, Klaus

Akio Miura Posts: 1,593 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 8:37 AM Klaus: Wes is not saying anything wrong. If you have any specific question about financial issues, you should post it in either Quality Roundtable or in Quality Management, but not both, areas, as Wes R suggested. I wonder why you are insisting the needs for a new board with having no specific question of yours. I agree that we haven’t had many questions concerning Financial Management doesn’t mean that there is no demand at all. However, it will mean that you have not raised any specific question in the past few weeks despite of our suggestion/advice is that you have no demand, You said, “Very few people have asked questions here. Perhaps they have found another source where the can get the knowledge necessary to do their jobs better and to involve top management in their quality initiatives.” Most people here are knowledgeable enough and had no need to ask another source. You do not have to determine that they are unknowledgeable when there is no question from them. If you are under the necessity of improving your knowledge regarding Financial Management and you want to improve your knowledge, it is your own personal interest. If you have no knowledge in it, please go to CPA’s office for mentoring to you. If you feel that your knowledge regarding Financial Management is a barrier to do your job, you are not competent to work as a Manager. By the way, before repeating these discussions, I would like to have your reply to my question to you about ISO 10012 in the Standards Discussion Board and your confirmation that you have understood the replies of Max B and me to your questions about the difference of warranty and guarantee. All of us are serious. Akio Miura

Klaus Geyer Posts: 201 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 12:15 PM Dear Mr. Miura, and to all who might be concerned I am afraid there are some serious misunderstandings, Mr. Miura. You have known me from these discussion boards for some years now. Did you ever have the feeling that I want to hurt someone or that I am not serious? I always tried to express myself a well as I could. Of course, I wrote: “Very few people have asked questions here. Perhaps they have found another source where the can get the knowledge necessary to do their jobs better and to involve top management in their quality initiatives.” But I didn’t intend to offend someone. Why should I do so? I have found here in these boards some friends who helped me a lot – why should I offend someone? The only thing I can do to is simply to say: “I am sorry! It was never my intent to hurt someone with my postings. If someone feels offended – I really regret it.” I have never insisted on a new discussion board – the only thing I did was that I just asked whether there was an interest. No more, no less…. To your other questions: Thanks for answering my questions regarding warranty and guarantee. Also the reply of Max was helpful. Concerning ISO 10012: I haven’t studied it completely so far. Please don’t think I am impolite because I haven’t answered so far. As I might have mentioned earlier: You have helped me a lot and you were one of those who always answered fast and precisely. Your answers often showed me my own limits and therefore I really regret that you feel offended with my writing. The last thing I would like to have is a disturbed relationship to you or all other Quality Professionals who I might have insulted by my writings. Therefore I would like to apologize – it was not my intent to offend someone. Please consider another thing: English is not my first language and I still have a lot to learn to express myself more clearly. Yours sincerely, Klaus Geyer

Steven Prevette Posts: 1,506 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 6:05 PM If I may: We have two different conversations going on here. One is related to the question Klaus raised, a reasonable one, should there be a Financial Management discussion board. Looks like there has been a few folks for it, a few against it. Klaus, I don't believe anyone is at all negative in feelings towards you for raising the question. The second issue is one of general frustration of the "old-timers" here with the lack of responsiveness of ASQ itself. Klaus, you are not the target of that frustration. As a note, unfortunately we are right now playing right into the hands of the ASQ powers that be who think we members are a bunch of unhappy, never will be happy, whiners. I know that is the attitude of some very senior staff at ASQ, and I know they lump me in the "whiner" category. So - all we end up doing is p***ing each other off, and the ASQ staff laughs at us while we punish each other. Steve Prevette Moderator of 3 ASQ boards

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 6:51 PM Very astute observation, Steve, but at the same time the ASQ staff is not being responsive which is am obligation they have. I would rather be a whiner than an obstructionist to improvement. Bill Pflanz Audit Forum Moderator Senior Member ASQ Member since 1991 Past Chair of Section 801

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 8:53 AM Max and Klaus, It may be helpful if you define what Financial Management issues are of interest to you. If you are talking about cost of quality methods, there is much literature on that subject. If you want to know more about applying financial benefits to process improvement efforts that is different. The Six Sigma people have attempted to show the value of quality to the company by applying profit contributions to the projects. We have had questions about project financials especially from Six Sigma people. It is difficult to give general responses to these questions because it is so dependent on the specific project. What financial data that is needed is defined by the problem. Things get more complicated when the improvement savings are also the result of making expenditures. The Six Sigma people have tried to simplify things by talking about payback period, rate of returns and net present values but these calculations can actually be very complicated and involve more knowledge of the traditional financial management methods for project capitalization. If we have quality professionals who want to go to the next level of financial management, there would need to be more formal training in that area. Quality professionals with a business degree or MBA would have the knowleldge to make the jump. I happen to have an engineering degree and MBA to go along with my quality training so I have always applied the financial part to my quality projects. Bill Pflanz

Max Breizh Posts: 90 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 9:02 AM Bill, "If you are talking about cost of quality methods, there is much literature on that subject". Yes there is much litterature on the subject, but it is a very good example for financial issues. Rarely have I seen much about internal failures and financial costs associated such as working capital. I agree that a discussion board is not the place to learn financial management from scratch. It requires basic formal training to begin with.

Akio Miura Posts: 1,593 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 9:21 AM I fully agree with Max Breizh that a discussion board is not the place to learn financial management from scratch. It requires basic formal training to begin with. Also I support his previous post supporting the comment of Wes R. At this stage, it will be “mbda” in the recent lean jargon meaning wasting time and effort to open a new discussion forum for financial issues. Akio Miura

Max Breizh Posts: 90 Re: Financial Management Posted: Jul 24, 2008 9:04 AM Bill, "If you are talking about cost of quality methods, there is much literature on that subject". Yes there is much litterature on the subject, but it is a very good example for financial issues. Rarely have I seen much about internal failures and financial costs associated such as working capital. I agree that a discussion board is not the place to learn financial management from scratch. It requires basic formal training to begin with.