Replies: 15

Steven Prevette Posts: 1,506 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 14, 2006 9:48 PM One issue is that the individual moderators can't go through the other boards and delete duplicates. In the most recent case, I have asked the original poster to delete their 8 duplicate messages, but they have not done that. Responses are beginning to accumulate all over the place, and I assume the person who originated the postings (apparently on the recommendation of an ASQ officer) has been considerably turned off by the negative responses from the regulars. Web Services has intervened somewhat, and it will be interesting to see if they participate in this discussion. It would be of great assistance if Web Services could go through and delete the duplicate posts, and move any responses to one location. - Steve Prevette Moderator, Ask a QA Pro.

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 15, 2006 12:25 PM Steve, It is a little unfair to blame the "regulars" for a flaw in the process. Actually, I am not even sure that the original poster is turned off by the responses. If anything, the poster should be upset with the officer who gave the bad advice. We have explained that by making multiple posts, the advice becomes so scattered that it does not help answer the question. As Wes and I have both said, this problem is not new and we have asked for help before. The ASQ officer needs to see that the problem is fixed and apologize for the fallout from it. I would hope that the person would come back but it may be too late as you noted. You have also pointed out another problem with the process in that the moderators cannot delete inappropriate messages. It may take a system change, but without that authority, the moderators lose a valuable tool to make the board useful. Just a few weeks ago, I had to call ASQ and get Web Offerings involved to delete some offensive spam messages. It is not like they are monitoring the boards regularly so maybe it is time for the moderators to have more power. The discussion board has improved over the last two years but it is probably time to go to the next level of performance. Bill Pflanz

Web Offerings Posts: 194 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 15, 2006 1:04 PM The posts have been cleaned up. The user was misinformed and was apologetic for the mistake. The thread that had the relevant response was moved to “Ask a Quality Professional”. Every comment that is posted in this forum is viewed by Web Offerings when it is posted. Some comments are logged and responded to while others are allowed to be sorted out among users. The knowledge base that is in the discussion boards is vastly larger than what we know and often suggestions that are made can be better answered by our users or moderators. The discussion boards are a tool for the users and we don’t want to rule with an iron fist. We want to keep it as organic as possible. The only time that Web Offerings steps in is when there is and outcry for functionality changes or rule violations that cannot be handled by our moderators. Currently our moderators have the maximum permissions that the software will allow. Moderators are able to delete posts in boards that they are moderators of. This functionality has existed for quite some time. Steve can confirm this and has the permissions to do this in a couple of boards. Thank you, Ryan Rau Web Offerings

Steven Prevette Posts: 1,506 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 15, 2006 1:23 PM Moderators are able to > delete posts in boards that they are moderators of. > This functionality has existed for quite some time. > . Steve can confirm this and has the permissions to > do this in a couple of boards. Just to clarify - Yes, I have permissions for deleting messages in the three boards I moderate. However, the multiple posts were in 8 different boards with 8 different moderators. Yes, I could have deleted the message from Ask a QA Pro board, but figured that was probably the best place for it. I could not go into the other 7 boards and delete the duplicates. That is either up to the 7 other moderators, Web Offerings, or the original poster of the messages. - Steve

Web Offerings Posts: 194 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 15, 2006 1:31 PM One of the purposes of creating the the moderators only discussion boards was for situations such as this. If larger issues arise that are beyond the scope of what can be done with moderator permissions you can communicate them there and they will promptly be taken care of as they have in the past. Moving threads to appropriate boards is another example of moderators being handcuffed by the permissions of the board. They occur but they have been only a minor inconvenience up to now. Thank you, Ryan Rau Web Offerings

Wes Bucey, Quality Manager Posts: 1,336 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 15, 2006 2:32 PM Is it appropriate to include here that I was a very vitriolic opponent to paying for this Jive software when it was roundly criticized by many of us who took the opportunity to give it a trial run when it was first proposed for the ASQ Forums? What irritates me most is that, as an organization of Quality Professionals, we do NOT deal with nonconformances in the ASQ Forums in the same manner we champion dealing with nonconformances in all our training classes. We professionals continually harp on the idea of making processes more efficient and "Lean," but we settle for inefficient processes in our sole international communication venue. The member whose multiple posts instigated this present discussion had no clear route to get straight information. The person she went to (I agree the name should be mercifully anonymous) shot from the hip because he or she had no clear route to get "instant" information. I think the FAQ should have been examined and vetted to remove ambiguities long before this issue arose, but we had no mechanism to do so. We have discussed this issue before (see the thread at http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/thread.jspa?threadID=84&tstart=50) THE OFFENSIVE "RULE" CURRENTLY READS (http://www.asq.org/discuss/rules.html): ASQ Discussion Boards Etiquette As with any community, there are simple rules of etiquette that guide the group in communicating with ease and ensure a free flow of information: There are a number of ASQ Discussion Boards currently operating. While each have some overlap, select the one most appropriate ASQ Discussion Board for your posting. Should you receive limited responses, then post to a second or third ASQ Discussion Board. Even that statement implies WAITING for a response or a period of time with no response before making a duplicate in another Form. The sorry fact is some new posters are so disorganized in their thoughts, they don't frame their questions to elicit a worthwhile answer. There was a period of time I used to jump on such posts, eager to retrain the poster. Now, I just ignore them. BOTTOM LINE: The current software has many shortcomings, not least of which is the ability to enable Moderators to have some Administrator privileges. We should seriously consider an upgrade to a more useful software. The "workarounds" proposed by Web Offerings are like putting cellophane tape on a broken window - OK for short term emergency, but definitely not recommended for a permanent repair. -Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Wes Bucey, Quality Manager Posts: 1,336 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 16, 2006 10:41 AM Another misguided ASQ member (J. Whichard) is making multiple duplicate posts. Recent Messages Discussion Board Posted 1 COPQ (Cost of Poor Quality) Benchmark Ask A Quality Professional Jun 16, 2006 9:52 AM 2 COPQ (Cost of Poor Quality) Benchmark Quality Management Jun 16, 2006 9:48 AM 3 COPQ (Cost of Poor Quality) Benchmark Government Jun 16, 2006 9:46 AM 4 COPQ (Cost of Poor Quality) Benchmark Chemical Process Industries Jun 16, 2006 9:42 AM 5 COPQ (Cost of Poor Quality) Benchmark Quality Roundtable Jun 16, 2006 9:36 AM J. Whichard http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/profile.jspa?userID=60368 COPQ (Cost of Poor Quality) Benchmark Posted: Jun 16, 2006 9:42 AM Reply Greetings to the group. I'm an ASQ member of long standing, member / officer of the Baltimore, MD section, and quality manager, divisional quality, in a global manufacturer of specialty chemicals (catalysts and other silica, alumina, silica-alumina materials). We've done six sigma since '99 and are currently "heavy into" Lean. Why should I (or any other member) have to try to reach multiple Moderators to get this guy in focus? We NEED a single source to complain to for relatively efficient handling of problems related to the Discussion Forums! -Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

Web Offerings Posts: 194 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 16, 2006 10:49 AM The multiple posts have been removed. Thank you

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 16, 2006 12:04 PM I contacted Eric directly and let him know about our recent problems. Eric understands why he needs to only post once. Since I spent 25 years in the oil and chemical industry myself, the personal contact also gave me the opportunity to communicate offline. This latest incident does show that we have a system problem that will not go away by just deleting the postings. We have suggested better instructions but there is no guarantee that a new user will bother to read them. What is really needed is the ability of moderators to delete the inappropriate postings as soon as they see them. They should not have to ask Web Offerings to do this regular maintenance. Bill Pflanz

Gregory Gay Posts: 290 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 16, 2006 12:46 PM OK, Can you add a system that will only allow one topic header to be the same tied to a single poster. Should a second post be added, by the same writer, you could have a pop up error message. People just dont know, a person can work around this, however most would understand. Gregory

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 16, 2006 3:12 PM Good idea, Gregory. All of the multiple postings that we have seen do exactly as you say. They copy same title and posting in each of the forums. The other tip off is postings that are less than every minute. Maybe there should be some type of warning message not to repeat the posting in another forum if the same poster does too many in a row. Both seem to be relatively easy programming fixes unless this system does not allow changes like those. Bill Pflanz

Richard Ickler Posts: 641 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 26, 2006 5:46 PM > read them. What is really needed is the ability of > moderators to delete the inappropriate postings as > soon as they see them. They should not have to ask > Web Offerings to do this regular maintenance. > > Bill Pflanz Web Offerings, Ryan Rau, posted that Moderators already have this authority for their board. Steve Prevette confirmed that this is the case. The problem is that many of the Moderators do not actively monitor their boards and many apparently don't know what authorities they have. If there is a problem with inactive Moderators, we need to be active in recruiting replacements who are willing to take the job seriously. This is another argument for reducing the number of boards to a meaningful group.

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 26, 2006 10:20 PM Steve only has the authority to delete postings for the forum he moderates. There is a need for a super moderator so they can delete multiple postings or move postings to the appropriate forum. I could not agree with you more on getting active moderators on the forums that are actually used. Any of these changes are more policy changes than software modifications. There is a group of us who are working with ASQ on recommended changes for the board. Bill Pflanz

Wes Bucey, Quality Manager Posts: 1,336 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 26, 2006 11:11 PM There is a group of us who > are working with ASQ on recommended changes for the > board. > > Bill Pflanz @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ PERHAPS RICH SHOULD JOIN THE GROUP TO HAVE AN OFFLINE DISCUSSION? -Wes Bucey, Quality Manager

William Pflanz Posts: 1,400 Re: multiple posts Posted: Jun 27, 2006 6:54 AM If there are any ASQ members who have an interest in contributing ideas for improving the discussion board they can contact me through the email address given in my profile. I do not want to become the permanent clearinghouse for board suggestions (that is what this forum is for) but there is a current effort to gather the ideas from recent discussions and formally present them to ASQ management. What initiated the action was a result of some recent problems with the same posting in multiple forums and geting inappropriate postings deleted. A small group of regular posters to the board decided it was time to present the suggestions, the reasons for the needed changes and the benefits to the membership in order to obtain ASQ management support and priority for improving the board. Bill Pflanz